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gray-warden said: i assume OP is talking about “achillean”, which specifically refers to a fictional character who was often argued to be in love with another man. so ofc that’s not the same. but still, it feels kinda unnecessary. the term “sapphic” specifically honors a woman who loved other women and is the origin of many symbols and terms wlw, especially lesbians, use to this day, while achillean just feels like someone wanted an equivalent of it (even though “mlm” already covers it)

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gray-warden said: it def really bothers me when people talk abt ancient greece as a positive example of gayness. i mean, sure, on a very basic surface level it can work to tell homophobes “gay people have always existed”, i guess?? but they’re not an example of people of the same gender loving each other, being attracted to each other, etc, and i hate it when people ignore that and are like “omg ancient greece was so gay its so cool”

gray-warden said: so yea OP sums up the whole thing p well. there’s a difference between comparing yourself to sappho, an individual woman who genuinely loved women, wrote poetry abt it and tried to live as herself when she was “not supposed to” and comparing yourself to men who were with other men in ancient greece, because the latter were not even necessarily mlm in the first place, and regardless of that, there was a lot of misogyny and pedophilia and power-dynamics

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gray-warden said: greek men had sex with other men because they thought women weren’t good enough unless you wanted children. and being a top or bottom was often decided by shit like social status, age, etc. of course there were men in greece who genuinely loved other men and weren’t just following the social expectations, but generally a lot of the “gayness” of ancient greece wasnt abt healthy relationships or whatever, it was often abt power, misogyny and even [pedophilia